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04/26/2005
Sleep, but not too much at all
This is going to be quick, because according to the clock I predict I'll have about five minutes before Charlie's current nap is over. Two sleep-related questions for the baby-enabled among you, if you please:
- Charlie sleeps from about 7:30 PM until sometime between midnight and 2 AM. He eats, goes back down easily, then sleeps for another three hours or so before waking again. If I woke him at, say, 10 PM to eat, do you think he would then sleep his five- to six-hour stretch from 10:30 until 4 or so? Or would we he still wake at 2, do you think? I'm scared to try it, terrified I'll end up fucking us out of that lovely long stretch entirely. What do you think? Do I dare disturb the universe? How should I presume? And what about that pair of ragged claws? But this is not about Charlie's tiny untrimmed talons or my own terrifying toenails — I digress.
- Charlie naps several times a day for precisely 40 minutes at a time, rather than consolidating his naps into fewer longer ones.
This is making me so insane that I am yanking my hair out in great wiry hanks, leaving my bloody scalp attractively mohawkedI am finding this somewhat inconvenient. Is there anything I should be doing to encourage him to sleep longer? Can I reasonably expect this to change as he gets older? Or am I irrevocably screwed?
"It depends on the kid, and there's no predicting it" is not a helpful answer to either of these questions, even if true, so only tell me that if you actually want me to tear myself into a raw-scalped patchy-haired mess. And if you know where I can get a nice wig. And a pedicure.
Posted by Julie at 02:14 PM in Charles in charge | Permalink
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» Baby sleeping is like religion and politics from start-up dad
It's all so confusing, trying to pick what theory of parenting you are going to be a part of. So let me make it easy.
You've already made up your mind, stop fighting it.
All these theories you read (or are brought up by friends and loved ones) ... [Read More]
Tracked on May 28, 2005 6:51:52 AM
Comments (148)
Our pediatrician specified NO naps longer than 1 hour for the baby...to help him sleep better at night - and it worked (though it could just be the baby)...even when he was a newborn, all I ever got was 2 1-hour naps a day. After he was 1 year old, we consolidated into 1 2-hour nap. While the lack of rest is nerve-shaking during the day, I thought it was a reasonable trade off for the night-time sleeping.
Posted by: VHMPrincess at Apr 26, 2005 2:20:48 PM
sounds exactly like my son! (who was also early/nicu but not as long as charlie). at 18 months my son sleeps almost entirely through the night (he has a weird thing where he wakes up for about 2 hours in the middle of the night. it's horrible. we're working on it) and takes one two-hour nap. which is incredible. the nap thing he did entirely on his own. i just kept putting him down twice (then once) a day and encouraging him to sleep as long as possible. i also quit going in until i was absolutely sure he was awake. i think it takes a lot of maturity for those good naps to develop. we've worked hard on the night time thing though mostly by laying on the floor next to his crib talking to him until he learned to go back to sleep w/o being picked up or fed.
good luck!
maya
Posted by: maya at Apr 26, 2005 2:21:03 PM
I read a book called Healthy Sleep Habits, Happy Child... It's not for everyone, but it has worked for us.
My son is 4 months now. He sleeps from 8pm to 4ish, eats and is back to sleep until 8 am. During the day he is awake for two or three hours, then naps an hour. Awake for two or three hours another nap... And then one quick power snooze in the evening and off he goes to bed.
There was a few days of letting him cry himself to sleep. But now he comforts himself to sleep. Again, not everyone likes this method. But it worked well for us. Of course the neighbours thought we were killing cats for a while there...
Posted by: LisaN at Apr 26, 2005 2:28:39 PM
Here's my $0.02 worth:
Give it a try! Waking him at 10:00 for another feed may just stretch him like you want. And when I say "waking" I really mean picking him up oh so carefully, and feeding him in his quiet, darkened room, so that he doesn't fully awaken and think that it's play time or whatever. Hopefully you will then get the desired result of an uninterrupted sleep in the wee morning hours.
As for naps, I would leave those alone. He should gradually become more organized and sleep longer (but less often!) as he gets older.
Good luck!
Posted by: Deanna at Apr 26, 2005 2:30:31 PM
I have a son who is a good sleeper and was full term, so perhaps this is total assvice. We needed consolidate sleep times when he was about 7-8 months old (the waking up at night thing). I got the book, "Healthy Sleep Habits, Happy Child" by Marc Weissbluth and followed it and it worked. It also conditioned me to get him to bed on a schedule as he got older and bed time became a bit more of a battle.
I think your experiment is worth a try. If it messes with him more than helps, you just go back to where you are now.
Kel
Posted by: Kel at Apr 26, 2005 2:32:31 PM
Let the throwing of trash and the boo hissing begin, but seriously -- Crying it out. It is the hardest thing to do, but what you are doing is teaching your baby *how* to soothe himself to sleep. Once they catch on to this concept -- it is a whole new world. Don't ask me for advice on how to get through it -- with all three of mine I sat and bawled at their doors with them rocking myself back and forth willing myself not to go in. But after three days of REALLY doing it -- letting them actually cry until they were asleep -- MAGIC. Now they'll all three go down completely wide awake and sleep through the night. Also, naps are long and sanity saving using this technique. It really seems like Charlie's just going through one sleep cycle per nap and not able to get himself back to sleep.
Good luck.
And FWIW -- yes, I know this is terrible and intolerably cruel and the children will hate and resent me for their entire lives and this will be imprinted on their sub-concious for their lifetimes and they will be nail biting, bed-wetting, mass murders. But, it would have been bad the other way too. I needed a nap and some downtime -- and they needed a nap too.
My email is enabled, so if you feel the need to let me know specifically why this is so bad, do Julie a favor and keep it off her board.
Posted by: Brandee at Apr 26, 2005 2:32:35 PM
The waking them up to eat thing seemed to work for us. So, I'd give it a try. Also, what worked was trying to keep her up later so she'd sleep longer. Seemed to work well as well.
Regarding napping, I'm already having amnesia as to how many they take at that stage. If possible, try to keep him up a little longer so he'll take a nap for a longer stretch of time.
Basically, it is a lot of trial and error, but you can usually find something that is working for you.
I'm sorry if I'm sounding kind of crazy but I'm in tired mom mode as well and can't think worth crap.
Again, just give it a try! Can't hurt!
Posted by: Sarcastic Journalist at Apr 26, 2005 2:41:21 PM
'teaching' him to self soothe at three months old? What a crock. That would be 'teaching' him jack shit but that no one will come when he cries, period; no amount of sleep is worth teaching my kid not to trust me. Sorry BRandee, i don't think you really are qualified to state that CIO is the only way for Julie or for anybody. He is WAY too young for such measures, anyway; any sleep trainer worth his salt would tell you that. Julie i'm NOT accusing you of doing that or anything at all; i know you're just trying to figure out what is best. You're a fantastic mother, and i know you will get it all worked out. Just read several books about different techniques. 'the happies baby on the block' by Harvey Karp, as well as 'The No Cry Sleep Solution' by Elizabeth Pantley are two great ones.
Dream feeding, what you described, worked out GREAT for us and was very helpful. Baby never really even woke up, just ate and back to bed. That way, i could go to bed at a normal grown up hour and still get 4-6 hours of uninterrupted sleep.
Posted by: Lydia at Apr 26, 2005 2:45:22 PM
Lily was taking three nap a day at Charlie's age. Each was about 45 minutes to an hour. She went down about 1.5-2 hours after waking each time. She was fed five times a day, about 5 oz. each time, at 8:00, 11:00, 2:00, 5:00 and 8:00 p.m. She occasionally would wake up at night and I gave her a bottle and she went right back to sleep until morning.
Is Charlie getting about 24 oz. a day (over 24 hours)? Does he go right back down at night when he wakes up?
I never woke Lily to eat - like you I was afraid it would ruin the long stretch. It might be worth a shot though - if it doesn't go well you can always go back to the current schedule.
Good luck and be kind to your scalp.
Posted by: Janice at Apr 26, 2005 2:49:56 PM
He's only 11 weeks, right? Is that adjusted or chronological...I can't remember, sorry. Either way, he's still really little, so I agree compeletly with Deanna. Give the new change a few days to before you decide if it's going to work or not. It probably will. I did nearly the same thing with my daughter when she was about 14 weeks old.
As for crying it out...I know it works for lots of families, but Charlie is just too young yet, in my personal and not at all expert opinion. I think most experts don't recommend using this procedure until the baby is 4 or 6 months old? Maybe?
I think your best bet is to talk to your pediatrician, if you trust and like him/her. And if you don't trust and like him/her, find a new one. Assvice, I know, but I hated our first pediatrician (I didn't do ANYTHING right, apparently) so we found one I LOVED. I would follow him to a different city if he ever moved. He said once that no one knows my child(ren) like me and he advised me to trust my instincts.
Good luck!
Posted by: suburban misfit at Apr 26, 2005 2:50:16 PM
OMG..again we have the SAME child!
Except we have one more middle of the night feeding than you do.
I'll tell you, I've tried the waking him up at 10ish to feed him before we go to bed and it always backfires on us! He winds up waking again at 12:00 and then 2:30 and then 5:00ish.
Its HELL!
So, I'm just letting him sleep until he decides its time. Its usually at like 11pm, but its a hassle because we always go to bed before 11.
And 40 min naps are the norm here too!
ONCE in a blue moon he'll take a longer one.
I also got Healthy sleep habits happy child and it says that at this age a baby will only stay awake for 1-2 hrs at the most. I started a sleep log and it appears that Miles can only stay awake 1 1/4-1 1/2 hrs at a time before he gets REALLY cranky!
Try to watch his signals and maybe it will be easier to get him to sleep longer???
Oh, and I want to say to each their own on CIO.
Why do mothers have to judge each other on EVERYTHING!!
EVERYTHING is an arguement it seems with motherhood. And everyone does it the BEST way, so that of course means everyone else is doing it the wrong way!
Give me a break!
Posted by: jennifer at Apr 26, 2005 2:53:16 PM
1. My gut says don't disturb the universe. You're getting a 5-to-7-hour stretch of sleep out of Charlie at a pretty young age. Also, since he's not waking from hunger on his own at 10 and doesn't have any other mitigating issues (that I know of), it seems totally counterintuitive to wake him up for a feeding. If he were hungry, he'd be waking up on his own. If you wake him up to feed, you're not only rousing him from a sound sleep but forcing food on him when he's not hungry. If I were Charlie, I'd be pretty cranky about that.
2. My kiddo was like that at Charlie's age, too. He eventually settled into a more regular routine of longer naps pretty much on his own.
Posted by: Tine at Apr 26, 2005 2:55:02 PM
p.s. Schedule described above was when Lily was five months old, not three.
Posted by: Janice at Apr 26, 2005 2:55:16 PM
1. Our daughter was a crappy sleeper (she did not go gently into that good night) so we just fed her whenever she woke up during the night. However, I think it is worth a try to see if you can give the dream feed at 10 - if it doesn't work, then you can chalk it up to lessons learned.
2. We too had the 40 minute naps (4 of them) at about 3 months. It makes me feel better that you have this too!! Gradually Annika migrated to 3 naps, then 2 2 hour naps with a "personality nap" before dinner and then only the 2 naps and now (at 2 years old) one nap.
Here is how I did the naps. Before we instituted this policy, it was a toss-up whether she would nap (and therefore, be awake enough to eat) at all: (1) start a bedtime routine - we did the bath, story, song routine (2) follow this routine for all naps (except the bath part) - we started with the morning nap, (3) lay Charlie down while he is still awake and give him some kind of lovey (Annika had a blankie), (4) put some white noise in the room - humidifier or air purifier are great, (5) go away and do something so you can't hear Charlie - I did a load of laundry and then got into the shower. You can always check in if he is screaming (if so, go in, check diaper, comfort, then repeat bedtime routine), but if he is just talking or grousing, don't go in. After 3-4 days, Annika would reliably sleep for this nap. Gradually, this approach worked for all naps and bedtime (even after we stopped nursing/drinking the bottle to sleep at bedtime).
ALSO - I nearly forgot - a firm bedtime is always good because can create your routine around that.
Posted by: Stephanie at Apr 26, 2005 3:00:16 PM
My two cents on item #1..... we had the exact same issue w/our twins and tried waking them earlier and it COMPLETELY BACKFIRED! They put up a huge fuss being woken up at 10ish, and still woke up at 2 am anyway, so we went back to letting them wake/feed on their own schedule during the night. As for #2.... don't have any suggestions and don't want you to pull out your hair so won't comment at all :)
Good luck....
Posted by: shari at Apr 26, 2005 3:01:27 PM
My son (now 4) used to have a similar sleeping pattern to yours at the same age, and that disturbed me very much because I was having my final university exam when he was 3 months (yeah, great timing, doing IF treatments while pursuing an academical degree). Thus, I decided to work on this problem, and I did as follows: when he was awake, I really dropped my books and played with him very intensely. When I realized that he would finally get tired, I would feed him. And I would feed him as much food as possible. This had the effect that he got even more tired and then went to sleep like the little angel he is for some 2-3 hours, allowing me to learn for the exams, do some housework, indulge in some pleasant activity etc..
Karinsamira
Posted by: karinsamira at Apr 26, 2005 3:11:15 PM
My son will sleep for up to 4 hours at his nighttime stretch (usually 10pm-2am, but can vary). However, waking him to try to push the time back doesn't work for us. He just gets really cranky and screams. I tried the "dream feed" and he nibbled, then woke a bit and ate, until he woke completely up and screamed his head off for the next hour.
But it was worth a try for us.
And, um, if you can share how you get Charlie to nap for 40 minutes, I'd be grateful. Because the only way I can get my son to nap is by CIO, which I HATE, but he screams constantly if he's in my arms, and he screams about 10 minutes before napping if I sit on the other side of the bed and watch him. I only do this once a day or so, and only if he really needs it.
So, two 40 minute naps a day, especially if I could achieve them without screaming (either me or the baby), would seem like a godsend to me.
Posted by: lisa at Apr 26, 2005 3:25:48 PM
I tried to wake Fuller up early to feed to get him to sleep longer through the night and it also backfired. I had to just go back to letting him decide when to wake to feed. But the issue that started to bug me was that when he woke at 2 am to eat, it was barely eating.
Now back at 3 months of age, that wasn't the case and I wouldn't recommend CIO at that age. But at 5 1/2 months, it was. The waking up thing was just a habit. That is when I decided to let him cry it out. Everyone who told me that they let their baby cry it out said it took only 3 days. (my mentor, my hairdresser, the internet). But, I wouldn't let a 3 month old cry it out. 4 days before Fuller turned 6 months old, he slept through the night and has been sleeping through the night ever since.
As for napping, Fuller gets to handle those on his own. He was a short napper in the beginning but now that he is getting a bulk of his sleep at night, he has settled into a 1 1/2 - 2 hour morning and afternoon nap schedule. Sometimes he does a short nap in the evening, sometimes not.
Oh, and whitenoise does help. We just spent the weekend at my Grandmother's house and he had no whitenoise and woke up constantly. Finally he slept with me and was fine. Now that we are home again, with his air purifier, he is sleeping like a dream.
Posted by: mrscrumley at Apr 26, 2005 3:27:14 PM
NONONO A thousand times NO! You will be sorry if you start waking him up to feed at 2...all you will do is create another feeding time. If you take no other advice in your life take this advice. My mom has 5 kids, 16 grandkids and is a nurse...and this is the advice she has ALWAYS insisted we all take (the ONLY advice she has insisted we take). My DD slept thru the night at 7 weeks. Eventually he will start stretching out that middle of the night feed hour by hour. If he uses a pacifier you can encourage him to hold off by using that. Trust me on this. You are on a perfect schedule right now.
He's young to be napping consistently...give him a couple of more months - follow your bedtime routine. A white noise machine or a lullabye tape might do the trick if daytime noise is bothering him.
Posted by: ellen at Apr 26, 2005 3:28:09 PM
Our son (NOT premie, but small for a full-term baby) did not sleep through the night w/out feedings for NINE months (not to cheer you up or anything). B/c his weight gain was such an issue, we couldn't encourage him not to eat before then.
Anyway, DO NOT MESS with that nice beautiful stretch of sleep you're getting from Charlie. Feeding him will not work - I promise. I'm also a 'Healthy Sleep Habits' parent and this is Dr. Weisbluth's and our pediatricians advice, too. Its about their sleep patterns and not just their eating, ESPECIALLY when babies are this young.
Yes, we did eventually have to do some crying it out to eliminiate one of the three middle of the night feedings, which sucked. But even the most die-hard cry-it-out advocates do NOT recommend doing this before 5 or 6 mos b/c the babies can actually learn to ignore their hunger signals. Charlie is wayyy too young for this approach, and he's actually doing pretty darn good w/his sleep for where he is, adjusted or not.
More easily said than done is to try to go to bed as early as you can. I got pretty good at crashing by 8:30, after I almost gave myself a 3rd degree burn cooking after mos and mos of sleep deprivation.
Hang in there. It will get better.
Posted by: Sharon at Apr 26, 2005 3:33:50 PM
My son will be 5 months old on the 28th and is exactly the same only we have 1 more night time feeding than you do. I tried to do the dream feeding that has been described and it backfired on us. We were at only 1 night time feeding and then suddenly had several. We are back down to only 2 or 3 (depends on when he goes down and growth spurts and such) now. My ped. said that if he only catnaps during the day (30 to 40 minutes at a time) then that's all he needs and as he gets older he will consolidate all of these cat naps. I feel for you and I wish I had some better advice for you.
Posted by: Stephanie at Apr 26, 2005 3:45:30 PM
I second the book Healthy sleep habits happy child. It worked for us like a dream and I have twins.
It's worth reading just to see how important it is for a child to sleep. (This is being typed as my ten month old is standing up in his crib roaring ba,ba,ba when he should be taking his noon nap!!)
Good luck
Shinaidy
Posted by: shinaidy at Apr 26, 2005 3:49:30 PM
Julie, Julie, Julie. The rule pre-kids is no talk of religion or politics. Post-kid? No talk of breast/bottle nor of sleep theory. It's actually pretty tame in here considering!
All that being said I'll share my personal experience:
Waking my (2nd) daughter to nurse her before I went to bed helped stretch out that last bit of sleep. However I didn't try that until she was 5ish months. It did NOT work with her big sister who was also colicky and who I swore came into my life only to keep me awake for every second of it. (yes that was just a different way of saying the non-helpful thing, my point is that you'll have to jump in and try it)
Charlie is still young enough that unorganized naptime should be expected. I know that it's frustrating, but I'd give it another 6 weeks or so before jumping off the bridge.
I second/third the No Cry Sleep Solution.
Despite my research/reading of aforementioned book and attempts at appropriate mom-things I still have a gut feeling that both my girls' sleeping/eating/learning habits would have "come around" exactly how they did and when they did with or without me. Those first few months (or year) feels like living Einstein's (?) definition of insanity.
Posted by: Laura at Apr 26, 2005 3:54:41 PM
This worked for us before my dd learned how to roll over...I used to wake her up right before I was going to bed (11 pm or so), take her out of her crib, lie down w/her on the twin bed in her room, nurse her while laying down, then I'd slowly roll myself off the bed, leaving her sleeping there until (blessedly) 5:30 or 6 am. So I'd say sure, try waking him up and see what happens, it could work out v. nicely.
Posted by: libby at Apr 26, 2005 4:01:28 PM
Delurking to second the "Healthy Sleep Habits, Healthy Child" book. It worked for us, and my 6 month old preemie now sleeps from 7:30 pm to 7:00 a.m. and has two decent (1.5 hour) naps a day. Best of luck to you.
Posted by: Jenn at Apr 26, 2005 4:08:30 PM
What aspect of it worked, though?
Posted by: Julie at Apr 26, 2005 4:10:02 PM
Have been lurking here in London for ages now and your fabulous blog has helped keep me sane.
My daughter is three and half months old (I started reading when I was going through multiple miscarriages)and although born full-term suffered from intra-uterine growth retardation which meant that she was born tiny and has shared some issues with Charlie.
Anyway, to answer your specific question, Lulu was doing the exact same thing about three weeks ago - going down at 7.30, sleeping until 2.00 and then waking again at 5.00. We started waking her for a feed at 11.00 and she now goes down at 7.30, feeds between 11.00 and midnight and sleeps until around 6.00 am. Still not quite enough sleep for me, but nice to get that long stretch during the night.
For the 11.00 feed we change her nappy (can't bring myself to say 'diaper')to wake her up fully and she has the first bosom with the lights on and me shaking with laughter while watching DVD re-runs of 'Soap'. That way she doesn't wake up with a full nappy later on and is awake enough to feed efficiently. She then gets the second bosom with the lights dimmed and is usually practically asleep by the end.
If you find a solution to the nap problem, however, I'd be obliged if you would share. Her Luluness doesn't generally manage more than two 45 minute naps during the day (on a good day) meaning that we are both, shall we say, a little fractious by evening.
By the way, are you feeling any better? I too have had my moments of utter despair in recent weeks (most recently yesterday!) and it has been a huge comfort to me to know that I'm not the only one.
Posted by: Lulu at Apr 26, 2005 4:16:33 PM
Hey, Julie!
It worked for us with Muffin Man. We'd put him down in his swing in the living room for his evening sleep. Then, when we were ready to go to bed, we'd take him out of the swing, bring him upstairs, change his diaper and feed him. Then we'd put him to bed in his crib and he'd generally sleep until about 6 (once he was 4 months old). At 11 weeks, the longest he could go was about 4 AM.
Posted by: liz at Apr 26, 2005 4:19:54 PM
I have a 2 year-old and a 3 year-old. Neither of whom slept completely through the night until they were over a year and that was with CIO. Here is the light....now they both go to bed at 7:30 and sleep until 7am. The nap time routine sounds normal for his age. What I did to lengthen that time was to play nature type music or white noise. It calmed me and helped them to sleep. The bad news is that Charlie seems to be just like every other 3 month old when it comes to sleep. Best advice sleep when he does regardless of if it is only 40 minutes or not.
Posted by: Jen at Apr 26, 2005 4:23:34 PM
Most babies don't have regular nap schedules until they are 4-5 months, so you might be stuck w/that for a little longer. Both my kids took 3 less-than-1-hour naps until 6-8 months, then 2 naps 1+ hours from 8-12 months, then 1 2+hour long nap after they were 1 year old. You might want to try to keep him up a bit longer - in 5 minute increments, see if you can do that last feed at 8 or shortly after. That might push you off a bit. I tried the waking to feed thing too, but my daughter would take 4 gulps, and pass out again, so it didn't work for me.
I think you try it, because my experience was that as soon as we got settled on a schedule w/either of my kids (when they were infants) - it changed shortly thereafter. Stick with it for a week or so, even if at first it doesn't seem to be working - give him a chance to get used to the new routine.
Break into Charlie's piggy bank for a pedicure!
Posted by: Mar at Apr 26, 2005 4:24:23 PM
Our son was a very erratic sleeper for his first year. We just put up with it. Most attachment parenting experts advise not to mess with sleep patterns for the first year.
Something I found really helpful was to lower my expectations for the baby's behavior. I found that if I planned to do something around his "naps" I got really frustrated and angry when he woke up 15 minutes later and I didn't get to do what I had planned. So I made a rule: when I was taking care of the baby, my time was for him. This included when he was sleeping, since I never knew when he was going to wake up.
As soon as I lowered my expectations, my stress level decreased tenfold. I was so much more relaxed, and eventually he worked it out so that we were getting two regular naps and sleeping pretty well through the night. He did this on his own with no pushing from us whatsoever.
One thing I learned from my La Leche League meetings is to remind myself that this behavior may be very very VERY annoying, but it is short term. Almost everything with babies is short term. It will get better, but you must have patience, grasshopper.
Finally, remember that the most effective way to bring about change is to change the things that you can control. Worrying and getting upset over the behavior of an infant is something you can control. The infant, not so much.
Best of luck!
Posted by: Lisa C. at Apr 26, 2005 4:34:01 PM
I have a book I'll bring for you tomorrow... "Solve your child's sleep problems" I think it starts at 5 months. Was prolly published in the 50's when the solution was to drink enough vodka that you didn't care if your kid was up all night. LOL
Posted by: BrendaS at Apr 26, 2005 4:35:37 PM
They are supposed to sleep?
Whoops.
Posted by: MollieBee at Apr 26, 2005 4:39:24 PM
Shit.
Posted by: Julie at Apr 26, 2005 4:43:19 PM
According to my pediatrician, babies won't conform to a routine until 6 months of age. At that point, I used the Ferber method. Very controversial, but it worked. It was one week of pure hell - but absolutely the best thing I never did. One year later and my 19 month old goes to bed (without a fuss) at 7:30 PM and sleeps through until 6:30 (sometimes later). Our bedtime routine went from an hour and a half to around 15 minutes - including jammy time, teeth brushing, and stories.
Posted by: Amy at Apr 26, 2005 4:47:18 PM
1. Wake him up and feed him (dreamfeed), it may work so it's worth a try.
2. You must try miracle blanket:(www.miracleblanket.com). It rocks.
Also, you may want to have him nap in the swing. The constant motion will help him sleep longer.
I would go ahead and rush-order the DVD called 'the happiest baby on the block' by Dr.Carp. It's the BEST sleep advise for 0-3 months old and I have read all the sleep book on the planet.
Posted by: Sara at Apr 26, 2005 4:49:03 PM
The only baby book I read was about sleep and I received the best information from it (and the worst - don't start rocking your child to sleep if he's already comfortable just going to his crib or you'll be rocking him until he is a teenager):
The brain goes through cycles during sleep and the first cycle lasts around 45 minutes - either you go into a deeper sleep after this 45 minute period or you can wake up. So the thing to do is not rush in and get your baby at this point, even if they cry a little, because they most likely will go back to sleep. My son did exactly this and I would always rush in to check on him (firstborn)and then he'd be wide awake when if I would have waited a LITTLE bit, he probably would've gone back to sleep. The trouble is if you've already developed the bad habit of going in, he may be used to it and you may now have to let him do some crying out stuff. But it's worth it - they
need their rest (as do you).
btw - after reading about this little tidbit all my friends who had infants at the time were amazed how accurate that 45 minute mark is.
Posted by: TCO at Apr 26, 2005 4:55:52 PM
we do what we call a "dream feed" at 10PM, but don't wake them up. they eat in their sleep! it helps to make them sleep later in the am.
Posted by: KatS at Apr 26, 2005 5:01:56 PM
also, make sure he's eating enough in ounces for a 24 hour period before you put him to bed. that might mean feeding him every three hours. it truly does help.
Posted by: KatS at Apr 26, 2005 5:03:42 PM
I would try waking him and see how it goes. I actually did that with my daughter when she went through a phase of 3 a.m. waking (she's the same age as Charlie, though was full-term), and it did seem to help. I am working on getting 2 longer naps right now, as she's also doing several 30-40 minute catnaps. What I find is that if we manage it, the night sleeping is better, *and* the day sleeping is better. (Good sleep begets more good sleep, my ped always says.) That said, I think it's also true that sometimes the 2-naps-a-day schedule is hard to attain until the kiddos are a little older. My informal survey of friends suggested 4-6 months is around when it seems to happen for most kids, with many moms reporting that it occurred "right after we introduced solids." I'm not planning to introduce solids until after 6 months, since breastfeeding is just so much more convenient (yes, selfish!) (though I will reconsider if she seems hungry), but I hope she will get the hang of the long naps anyway....In any event, Charlie's probably right on schedule to start being able to swing them, now or in the next 2-3 months!
And about all the cry-it-out methods---we used "Babywise" with both kids, but luckily for us neither child really ever cried it out. I think the key, if you want to pursue this kind of method, is to get the child on a sleep-eat-wake schedule, so that they are not used to being fed to sleep. (But honestly, I DO nurse right before bed, I just don't let her fall asleep. As she drowses, I wake her up, put her in the crib, stroke her belly and sing to her, and then leave. In her case, she deposits thumb in mouth, and is usually asleep within 5 minutes with no crying.) Good luck!
Posted by: giddy at Apr 26, 2005 5:04:35 PM
I'd go for the waking him at your convenience earlier in the night- it should work.
As for the short naps things, you could try keeping him awake for a bit longer than he's happy with- he might sleep for longer, then skip the next nap, and gradually space them out.
Posted by: e at Apr 26, 2005 5:08:09 PM
One more thing and I'll let you wallow in your despair*.
T. Berry Brazelton's books made me feel sane when my kids were babies. I didn't subscribe to the CIO (I know it works for some and that's great; it didn't work for us. My son got himself so worked up the first night that he threw up. Four times. I didn't try it a second night.) method, but I wasn't about co-sleeping, either.
Brazelton didn't make me feel all new-agey or like I was a bad mother. His basic philosophy is that if you love your baby and give him the things he needs (food, love, attention), everything will fall into place. He has some good advice.
Oh, wait, maybe one MORE thing! Assvice follows: since Charlie is on formula now, do you have a trusted relative or friend you could leave him with overnight? You would not BELIEVE how helpful a good night's sleep might be right now. You and Paul could get a hotel room or something and just sleep. Blissful, wonderful sleep.
*This, too, shall pass. I can't believe that we made it through the baby stage without killing each other, and now the challenging one is 8.
Posted by: suburban misfit at Apr 26, 2005 5:10:47 PM
my experience:
waking a kid to feed him is silly. kid will be angry at being roused. kid will not be hungry and won't eat anyway, so you'll put kid back down in anger and frustration, only to have him wake up at the regular time hungry again.
over-feeding obviously doesn't work, and waking kid up early won't let him sleep through. it's like topping off a gas tank: it doesn't make the time between fills longer, it only restarts your counter from zero. if child will process a feeding in 6 hours, then topping off his tank means that he'll be hungry again in 6 hours from the top-off, rather than making him sleep 8 hours.
the 40-minute thing: periods of wake vs sleep will change and become more rhythmic. that's all i can tell you. i'm sorry. if you call any hospital oncology department i'm sure they can point you to a good source of quality hair replacement products.
Posted by: RainbowW at Apr 26, 2005 5:14:46 PM
I'd say "The No Cry Sleep Solution" is a better read, but that's just me.
My preemie son, same due date as yours, slightly later birth date, is not yet on a consistent nap schedule, either. Sometimes he has long naps, sometimes short. Eventually he'll probably shift to two long naps and a longer sleep time at night.
I only know this, because that's what my other child did. I don't remember when she did it, though, because it's sort of a sleep-deprived haze for those first months.
And quite frankly, I think it's awesome that you have a child that only wakes up *once* in the middle of the night. I'm convinced that "sleeping through the night" is not nearly as common as some folks would have you believe. I'm convinced that they either have mutant children, or they, too, forgot all the night wakings in a sleep-deprived haze.
Posted by: Geeky at Apr 26, 2005 5:20:08 PM
I always woke mine at 11 or so for the last feed - once they got to 3-4 months. It helped that I got to sleep from 12 to 5 - try it once or twice and see how it goes.
As far as naps - my now almost 1 yr old did that around the 3-4 month mark - I found that if I left her she fell back asleep - are you lifting him up too soon?
Posted by: HeatherP at Apr 26, 2005 5:22:35 PM
Once a baby is sleeping at night, length is very dependent on a full tummy. The more a baby can comfortably take in, the longer s/he will sleep. Charlie's larger feedings will result in longer overnights.
In the NICU I worked in we recommended that you wake an infant to feed them just before you went to sleep, this is commonly done with twins as well. It doesn't hurt and does extend the sleep.
Good luck
Pandora
Posted by: Pandora at Apr 26, 2005 5:22:45 PM
My girl didn't sleep through the night until she was 2. The waking to feel, the crying it out, the keeping her awake, the soothing her to sleep? None of it worked. She just needed three hours of sleep and then she was up for 2 to 3 hours. Then 3 hours of sleep, etc. etc. etc. All day, all night. Then there are our friends with an 8-week-old that sleeps 10 hours. At night. Try it. That's my advice. Then try something else if that doesn't work (but give it some time to sink in, in case it MIGHT work).
Posted by: Debbie at Apr 26, 2005 5:35:43 PM
My boy is 4 months - he has slept from 8am to 6am for the past 3 weeks, without a whimper, without a moan. Here are the tricks that worked for me: (PC people please skip) :
-Sorry: have to have SOME crying : at 4 month = 20 minutes at 2 years = 2 hours -you choose. Do the first crying session during the day - somewhat easier- never easy. Believeme, won't be persistent,2-3 nights max.
- socks for naps and sleep, even if have footsies on
- sleep teddy bear
- middle of the night: feed less and less (esp if baby over 12 lbs and gaining well)
- tank up on milk during the day
- DO NOT turn on the light/stimulate for middle of the night visits/feeds - try not to change - glob on cream at bedtime
- DO NOT put to bed that late - bedtime should be between 7-8 max. Don't be scared - it works- and quickly
- daytime naps - at Charlie's age he needs 3-5 hours total. Treat same as nighttime : socks, teddy bear etc. (Music OK too)
- Don't forget the late afternoon nap anywhere between 4-6pm : very crucial : sleep begets sleep... definitely.
- Following the chapter on "how to establish your baby's routine " in "On becoming babywise" made my baby happy, saved my life, marriage and sanity. (Yes, I know it's a very very unPC book.... I know). Following cycle of feed, play, nap ; feed,play,nap will allow you to know exactly what your baby wants and when. It does mean you can't run out every minute to the store or coffee with your baby , but if you stick to it x2weeks , your baby will do it himself. If you establish this routine first, there'll be less crying-it-out when you get there.
Good luck
Posted by: maria_ob at Apr 26, 2005 6:05:48 PM
Ack! Everyone reccommending CIO is really freaking me out. It is totally normal for babies so young to take short naps. My son never napped longer than 30 minutes until he went down to 2 naps at 6 months. IMO your son is WAAAAY to young to even consider CIO. It is horribly inconvienient but for most babies it's a short period of time.
I second NCSS and Brazelton. But mostly I'd just say give him time. It's annoying but normal despite what Weisenblum (or whatever) may say about it.
Another great resource is Dr. Jay Gordon's website. http://www.drjaygordon.com/
Good luck, I hope things get better soon.
Posted by: TexasMama at Apr 26, 2005 6:14:16 PM
We started doing a "dream feed" at about 2 months, and it did seem to help...for a while. She'd gotten to the point where we'd put her to bed between 7-8pm, dreamfeed 10-11, and she'd sleep until 4ish. The first time I did the dreamfeed, I could not wake her up to eat at all! I learned that changing her diaper rouses her enough to eat a good meal, and as long as I don't turn any lights on at all she doesn't wake up completely. The problem now at 4 months, is that she's teething, so she's back to waking up every couple of hours. When she started waking up around 1 with or without the dream feed, I decided to stop. It backfired, though, because now she's accustomed to waking up around that time that she wakes herself up anyway. If I had to do it all over again, I don't think I would have started it in the first place.
Also, at 4 months, our baby rarely takes a nap for more than 45 minutes unless I'm taking one with her and can get her to go back to sleep.
Posted by: Brandi at Apr 26, 2005 6:20:01 PM
